0185 Forums / Theology Forum / "god Doesn't Care About Our Happiness" on: April 18, 2005, 11:12:57 PM My experience has been that when i have gone through depression or real tough trials that i have spent a lot of time meditating, looking at the problem,and praying. When i have had relief and looked back on those times they seem to be the closest times i have spent with the Lord in heaven on earth. Yet when i was going through them the pain that was driving me to that closeness seemed more than i could handle. I probably needed a close friend but that was what was dealt to me at the time.

 10186 Forums / Theology Forum / "god Doesn't Care About Our Happiness" on: April 18, 2005, 11:05:41 PM I think we need to be patient and praying when we go through tough times. There is nothing wrong with asking God some serious questions about His percieved silence. We need to open our hearts in His presence even though we may come out of prayer feeling worse than we started in prayer. There are states of depression that are not easy to deal with. But we still need to get to the bottom of the problem and role it over to the Lord. I have been very angry when i have prayed and expressed that to the Lord. Prayer that is honest is going to bring healing and release of the burden. Come to Him with a complaint that is directed toward your wanting to trust Him but are experiencing the opposite and this is too much for you to handle. How long will He put you through this? When will He come to your relief? These are questions of mourners who have an interest in glorifying God. Plead the promises! James says \"Are you suffering,then pray!\" 

10207 Forums / Main Forum / I Am A Big Wuss! on: April 13, 2005, 06:56:09 AM im not trying to brag but i am good looking yet i had periods in my single life where i couldnt make a connection with a dog. I mean that is the way things were and i had to accept that as it was. When i just made a point to not think in that way the \"what if\" syndrom and spent time in social settings and church functions just enjoying myself then learning to be free in that way i met someone who i connected with as if i had known her in another life. It is what God is doing in your life that is more important than what you want. \"What if \"is a confidence killer and will hang over your head like a dead weight. Im glad your honest and it is a real battle to over come. Think about the way you think and then when you get into the rut put your thoughts on things above and learn to draw your comfort from those things. The test is when you are by yourself to get in a state where you are not pining away but your thoughts are all leading to optimistic things and enjoy those alone times. If you can then you will be better able to connect when God brings her along. I used to think when i was single that God was preparing my wife for me and i just hadnt met her yet. Look for friends that are the innocent people not real fast track kind. Church is real important . Calvinistic conservative girls are the best1

0225 Forums / Theology Forum / Oh, How I Love....dotrine? on: April 10, 2005, 11:29:31 AM I agree that the Gospel is the center of our affection but it is not only for the unsaved. The gospel is the means for the \"saving\" of our souls that is ongoing and the bigness of God is the central theme in this preached message. His grace ,that is the Fathers particular love for His own in sending His Son [who is co-equal with the Father and the Spirit ] He humble Himself and came as close to sin as He possibly

0233 Forums / Politics Forum / Form Of Government? on: April 10, 2005, 05:44:09 AM Our nation was set up as a republic, with a Presbyterian form of accountability. The gov. officials covenanted by placing their hand on the Bible that they would uphold the laws and guard the gospel. These presbys. were confederates or groups of spiritual leaders who counseled these government officials on how to better lead the people and hold them accountable in the moral leadership and constitutional responsibilities. We have moved far from this original republic to a democracy and the rise of the individualism which leaves people powerless to effect any change because the original structure for change was Presbyterian [group] and covenant accountability. We have moved those presby accountability to business accountability and the courts have changed the laws so that they are democratic in nature [the desire of the majority to effect change and this belief that the constitution is subject to change. What do you think? 

10235 Forums / Current Events / Form Of Government? on: April 10, 2005, 05:04:02 AM Our nation was set up as a republic, with a Presbyterian form of accountability. The gov. officials covenanted by placing their hand on the Bible that they would uphold the laws and guard the gospel. These presbys. were confederates or groups of spiritual leaders who counseled these government officials on how to better lead the people and hold them accountable in the moral leadership and constitutional responsibilities. We have moved far from this original republic to a democracy and the rise of the individualism which leaves people powerless to effect any change because the original structure for change was Presbyterian [group] and covenant accountability. We have moved those presby accountability to business accountability and the courts have changed the laws so that they are democratic in nature [the desire of the majority to effect change and this belief that the constitution is subject to change. What do you think?

 10242 Forums / Main Forum / Wicked Is My Righteousness Yes? on: April 09, 2005, 10:02:02 PM Motivation is a hard nut to crack. Should we stop reading the Bible and praying because we think we are doing it for the selfish reasons only? I say May it never be! There is a reason for wanting forgiveness that is bad. We could be focusing on our t is the wrong motivation. That usually does not lead to healing and change. The psalmist would say\" search me Oh God and know my heart.\" We really need the grace to repent and have genuine sorrow over sin. This is not really a burdensome legal exercise but an understanding of who God is and how our sin has offended Him and His graciousness in forgiving us. It centers on the greatness of God! The problem with selfish motivation is that we dont know how great God is. When we focus Him on His soveriengty, then we understand our problem and our motivations will change. Its really that simple.

10291 Forums / Theology Forum / Oh, How I Love....doctrine? on: April 08, 2005, 01:18:53 PM Yes to a certian extent this is true. But we can dissagree and be adults about it. The danger on the other side of this argument is that we dont get into scripture and we remain babys only on the milk of the word and we need to go on. If you dont gaurd your doctrine then you will create a vacum for all kinds of philosophys to thrive. We are either going forward or going backwards there is no stagnation that exist in the christian world. Wen you stand for something you will have people take sides if this is not your experience ,chances are you are not growing in the Lord.

 10378 Forums / Main Forum / Do We Need To Be Reverent? on: April 03, 2005, 12:14:17 AM I think we miss out on a lot of relationships because we judge the outward things. Most people have good hearts in friendships.There is grace in the whole world and the unsaved are better at being transparent than christians are. To think that we are just in their lives to witness is short sited in my book. Friendships are developed over time and people can share things in common saved or unsaved. Just because they get drunk dosent mean that they are all bad. I have been shamed by them in being selfish and uncaring. There are unsaved that i could never be good as them in certian areas. God will do the saving and we must be ourselves worts and all. The main thing is to do good to everyone. 

 10379 Forums / Main Forum / Born Of The Spirit? on: April 02, 2005, 11:44:40 PM russgorsline, I come from a background where you sit and listen to the teaching and you keep quiet. You can miss apply this passage by ignoring other passages where it says to exhort one another and many other passages about our speech. I think that the question and answer setting is essential in the growth of believers and is needed as well as the preaching. I think the context in thess. is about not making a living and being in other peoples business by not being busy enough in our own lives. Hey, why do we come here but to communicate the love and grace of God. I dont think that is an absolute rule.

 10380 Forums / Main Forum / A Call To All Christians on: April 02, 2005, 01:46:53 PM Quote Truth gets the spotlight and my heart soars at the sight of it. I am not seeking to feel a certain way, nor am I seeking intellectual prowess - but I am beginning to understand what is meant by seeking first His kingdom. I agree and the truth will set us free. Although i dont think that you should seek emotion the natural response to truth will affect us. Seeking Christ with all we have is essential. And i have found that the devil is in the details. So that is why i seperate the emotions from the intellect for the sake of discussion. I believe that we in the reformed movement have become intellectual calvinist which i have been fighting in myself. The temptation is to become a holiness movement and in the surrounding climate look just like our arminian brothers.Really what we accept as norm might not be real calvinism. We really must take a look at our religious culture and examine how that affects our thinking and compare it to the word of God in prayer. Modern day charismatics have a history of revival in this country in the Charles Finney theology. Our american calvinist fore fathers measured the state of the church by the revivals that is the great awakening kind that were breaking out and the level of religious affections that translated into conversions. 

10396 Forums / Theology Forum / Man's Free Will Vs God's Sovereignity on: March 31, 2005, 10:48:39 PM We have free will to choose anything we want when we are unsaved. We do exactly what we want to do when we want. We are responsible for our actions from birth. But we are blind to spiritual things and cannot choose any thing good. Our motives are purely selfish in our choosing in our unredeemed state. When we do things for others we are wanting the glory for ourselves. We can do no good thing for God. All our good works are filthy rags. When we are regenerated we are given desires to glorify God in our bodys. The Holy Spirit takes residence in us and we are freed from sin. We still choose freely and now those choices are good by justification. We are given Christ righteousness and even though our works are tainted with sin they are accepted because of Christ. We choose freely to either obey the Spirit or not.

10417 Forums / Main Forum / It Is Finished on: March 27, 2005, 07:56:55 PM Before the creation of the world the Trinity counseled together to fulfill the ultimate purposes in the Godhead. They decreed that Christ would suffer for sin and fulfill all righteousness. The Father sent the Son and the Spirit. It was for the glory of God that all these things should be accomplished. The ultimate pleasure would be fulfilled in the Godhead because any other being could not fulfill those purposes.He suffered an eternal punishment to meet eternal demands as justice. He died as a man but hung on the cross being fully God. It was an act of love that is eternal and a particular love to those the Father gave the Son in the counsel before time. The work the Son did met the demands of the Father on the cross and open access to the throne of God. Those whom the Father chose before the foundation of the world are in the Son and stand righteous because of His righteousness. Now we have a sacrifice that is a once for all sacrifice and we come to the Father through Jesus Christ. We have boldness because His blood is more priceless than any earthly goods. It is a death and resurrection of great value. All the purposes in our lives are wrapped in the ultimate purpose bringing Glory to God in Jesus Christ.We have eternal life that cannot fail because it is the purpose of Father to give the Son those for His glory and that is an eternal purpose in the Godhead. No other being could keep the eternal demands except Christ. Those who are not in Christ will suffer an eternal punishment. This is the requirement of God. Punishment that is any less would not be acceptable to the eternal demands. 

 

 10444 Forums / Theology Forum / The New Phariseeism on: March 25, 2005, 05:16:17 AM I like to think as of freedom as living in the heavenly realms and feasting on the Lord at all times. To be honest this struggle of life brings me down because its all about what others do and what my responsibility is. It is a legal thinking that is oppressive. I love the gospel because it is simple but yet profound and powerful. It really is all about relationship with the Father. Some people think it is about the eggs they have in their basket and they have them all in order and they live a legal religious life. It seems that what happens is they end up with so many eggs they have no time to bask in the eternal life that they possess and the fellowship with the Father. I would rather have one egg and a life of heavenly joy and rest in the arms of my Heavenly Father.

 10447 Forums / Theology Forum / You Can't Go Against The Leadership on: March 25, 2005, 04:09:09 AM Hi everyone, If the guy dosent stand up for himself no one else will. If he is saved and has a complaint that is legitimate then he should tell the pastor with out being ostrasized.I have seen personality conflicts before but the leaders should know how to deal with that. Most pastors get into the ministry for the wrong reasons. They want to tell everyone what to do and there is no accountibility. I ask this one thing because i think it is the bulls eye of the problem in the church today. Are the people for the church or is the church for the people? The latter is the biblical one. It really is all about service. Every one is equal in Gods eyes as far as submitting to the whole counsel of God. There are not two sets of rules one for the leadership and one for the congregation. Sheparding is the word that comes to mind here. Christ is the head of the church some pastors think that they are.  

10509 Forums / Theology Forum / Does Evil Come From God? on: March 19, 2005, 04:24:08 AM James says that God is not the author of sin. The angels were created to worship God and do His will. They had a free will because not only did Lucifer rebel but He took with him a large number of angelic beings. There is mystery here and we know that God decreed that evil should exist in a permissive way. Nothing exist without Gods decrees yet evil did not come from Him. In Romans it says that the existence of evil makes Gods glory appear greater. The much of the attributes of God come from the backdrop of evil. Now we have an apologetically enlargement for Gods love by the antithetical existence of hate. The antithetical argument is also apparent in the apprehending of the grace of God as greater than sin. It is apparent in God being the highest above other gods. We are created with the desire to excel even more in our spiritual understanding. We are overcomers by the power of the Spirit in the struggle with the flesh. We are created as transcendent beings to a supernatural experience over against the course of the world and power of satan. 

10533 Forums / Theology Forum / The Seven Dispensations on: March 16, 2005, 05:31:46 AM Creation to fall Innocency Fall to flood Conscience Flood to Abraham Human Government Abraham to Moses Promise Moses to Christ Law Church Age Grace Millennium Kingdom The dispensation in scripture is a management that man has been given. But I think the dividing of the scriptures into dispensations is hard to find in scripture. God is sovereign and He makes covenants that have a promise that will go according to His plan.A covenant in scripture is not like men make covenants with themselves. God promises and gives the grace to carry it out. He provides the forgiveness when it is broken by man. I rather see covenants that God made with man as found in the scripture. The covenant to preserve mankind after the flood. The covenant with Abraham a salvific covenant.The new covenant a further light on salvation. I dont agree with dispensationalist that God gives man a management and when His plan fails He turns to a different age or management. I think the above characteristics can be found from the beginning of time in salvation all 7 of them. I dont characterize the garden as innocence. Our conscience is used by the law to condemn us and when we are saved it is by grace alone, we have access to all the promises, Christ is our king or ruler who we answer to in all of life, while we are here on earth there will always be human governments.Finally Gods plans never fails and man is never the center of His workings. God never changes so the bible is a progressive revelation of who God is and what he requires. Salvation by faith alone is as old as Adam, but was not revealed as it is now. Its like going into a dark room and you only see a few things but as time goes on the light gets brighter. That is the hermenutics of scripture.


9931 Forums / Main Forum / Believing Is Seeing. Pretending Is Not Believing. on: November 25, 2005, 12:25:29 PM Believing is the only way to have a since of security in life. To believe is to acknowledge a dependence on someone else in a moment by moment experience. That is taking that security of salvation that is in Him. The centrality of believing is a need to have the person come to your rescue. You see in Him the only way to be delivered because He is righteous and you are not. That righteousness is so important in who He is that He needed to impute it to you so that you could be righteous in yourself. That is the reason He delivers you in all of your circumstances. That is the reason that He is accessible to your comfort and your security. For a saint believing in Him is accepting that His righteousness was imputed to me and my sin has been taken care of at the cross. That is the central power in believing that is trusting in a Person and what He has done on my behalf. That is where the power of security exist. When i trust in Him in this way then my confidence to communicate to Him is securely confined as Him being my secret refuge in a public adversarial life. Believing is not just a one time transaction of His righteousness but is a continual going to that place of security, that place of trust and being delivered from these human deli mas that are self inflicted or that come apoun us. Believing is a repeated mantra on the lips of the righteous, just as Christ confessed His Fathers authority all through the gospels. It is the essential element in approaching a benevolent Father to experience the power of illumination in our meditation. It is comming with dependent words on our lips such as ,it take refuge in You, i trust in You, rescue me, deliver me,turn your ear to me, be my rock, hear my cry, come quickly. All these phrases are powerful lines in a believing in the heart. That continued believing in Him leads you to trust in Him as the only sturdy foundation on which you can stand. When you experience believing you will experience power and peace that is evangelical righteousness that has been imputed to you by sheer mercy and grace and even though the cry of you heart and conscience is that you do not deserve His gift you will cast that doubt to the wind because of your experience in that security. Only Satan would like you to hold onto that doubt so that He can convince you to dash yourself against that gracious Rock. The reality is that the unsaved who have not experienced the struggle of believing go head long into that Rock and are crushed. Not you though because of your confession and your constant struggle to believe. Yes that is evangelical believing mixed with corruption but solid because of His. Knowing that that place of trust is there is the other central power in persevering in believing. That place is not going to be pulled from you. He will be there to go to without reservations ,without conditions, with out finite purposes as His intentions such as responding to some besetting sin and aimed at you to punish you. In believing we see Him as always faithful, full of mercy, unfailing love, compassionate, blessing. That is who we are dependent on in all of life. There are no intentions in Him to destroy us or harm us. What confidence we have in believing is a confidence that is 100 percent on Him in which He transfers His confidence in that imputed righteousness to us and believing is that power of confidence of another Person indwelling us in reality, that being God the Holy Spirit as our advocate as a immanent Person in our experience on earth. Unless we accept imputed righteousness we will not experience the Holy Spirits presence in a strong way. We will not go to God under any circumstances because we will draw back by corrupting our confidence in looking to our own righteousness as the means of believing. We must understand sovereign grace and its power to accomplish what we cannot accomplish in ourselves. We must experience a transforming power in believing just as we experienced it when we first believed. You remember that radical transformation in your first confession to Him dont you? What you forgot was the simplicity in trust Him for that grace. Confess Him again, come to Him the same way you did at first. You have that hunger in you, it just is more of a struggle to see it because you are used to Him. 

9953 Forums / Main Forum / Was Paul A Sinner? on: November 23, 2005, 12:36:31 PM They keep saying that we are saints not sinners. Now there are two questions here that must be answered about saints. One is why am i a saint? What keeps me as a saint? I was chosen to be a saint, not by any thing in myself but because of His soveriegn grace. In fact in myself i am a depraved person. I am a saint because i have a foriegn righteousness, and all the work in making me a saint was done by Him on the cross and was imputed to me not infused to be dole out to me more righteousness little by little. I have the full imputed righteousness of Christ that makes me a saint. Two i could not remain a saint without being in Christ. Remaining in Christ is not of my own doing either. \"Without me you can do nothing\" so i am a saint by the shere mercy of God and i remain a saint by that mercy, in myself i am a sinner and want to disobey and i do disobey all the time. I commit willful sin by not doing what i am supposed to do which is to love God with all my heart mind and soul, how many of you have done this? Or is fail not do those evil things that i am command not to do.

9956 Forums / Main Forum / "knowing" Salvation on: November 23, 2005, 11:38:40 AM If you look in romans you will find that abraham reckoned himself ungodly not just in his initual justification that is in the initual imputed righteousness of Christ which was the essence of his true faith, but that reckoning continued thoughout his life of faith. The reason is that it was not of works that he obtained faith nor was it of works that he kept his faith. Saving faith results in the work or righteousness but it has no works attatched to it. Justification is all of grace but sanctification is the result of justification. Justification is all of grace and is our reliance of being righteous, which is apart from works and is imputed. We could not get salvation in ourselves nor could we keep salvation in ourselves. We are sinful an corrupted through and through this side of heaven. We expect to sin because we are sinners by nature. Sin is not just acts of evil, it resides in us as sure as death over takes us. 

9979 Forums / Prayer Requests / Along Wiith Everyone Else on: July 09, 2005, 04:48:45 PM I think there are reasons for all of us to question whether we did the rite thing. I think that is a self fulfilling prophecy to think that way. Every thing that happens is decreed by God. You didnt step out of His control for this decision. Your wife is not powerful enough to alienate you from your family. Your problems in that area are your problems. If you had the queen of Egypt you would find yourself in the same situation with them. First of all you are commanded to love her like Christ loves the church. She is commanded to love you. Every marriage starts when we say I do before that you only know what you percieve is true by what kind of person she was. The reality is at the altar. Be glad you are married and stop questioning God on his design in your life. Your wife will respond to your confidence in your love for her she will mirror your desire. 

y 9980 Forums / Theology Forum / Types And Shadows on: July 09, 2005, 04:17:40 PM The scripture is for teaching, it contains doctrines that are drawn from the literal interpretation. These doctrines are essential to living a Godly life. This is the science of interpretation and that is to draw out the doctrines from the text. Typology is a science that can be counter productive in this process. This is evident in today's way of thinking. There have been doctrines that are outside of the whole counsel of God from this way of looking at the scripture. Instead of clearing up a doctrine in the text typology clouds the doctrine and people are left with a false view of what the text is saying. The old way of thinking that is confessional put boundaries around these doctrines. Typology has made these texts sort of living as the constitution if you know what i mean. 

 9981 Forums / Theology Forum / Types And Shadows on: July 09, 2005, 04:02:18 PM My problem with typology is that the scripture is only saying one thing. The stories are literal in the OT. They should be read as literal first because there are moral lessons that can be overlooked by typology. Granted there are many different applications in in one text. My point is that if you make a literal story a type you add to the text a teaching that is your own even though there may be some merit in what you are saying. This can make the logic and literal interpretation of the text equal with a private interpretation. Think of what a mans imagination can come up with in the name of typology. Its a dangerous game. 

10047 Forums / Theology Forum / Distinctly Defining The Gospels on: June 01, 2005, 05:53:34 PM Hi Dlktrose, I skimmed through you post and i think that there are some things that i need explanation. I consider that the word \"assembly\" was not just a new testament word and denotes Gods dealing with a remnant of people in this case Isreal. That is an old testament church. The concept of church was not of Pentecost origin but was extended to the Gentiles at Pentecost as included in the \"assembly\" or grafted in and now there is no difference in the body of Christ. The apostles make reference to this comparison many times in the N. T. The doctrine of God and His promised presence in the assembly is progressively revealed starting from creation. (Hebrews) I do not see a difference between the Old covenant and New but rather a completion in Christ. Salvation, the law, the promises were all experienced by the OT saints in a deep way because it has always been by faith. It has always been by grace thats why they had the sacrifices. They had real salvation experience and real worship in the assemblies. 

10128 Forums / Theology Forum / Stay Or Go? on: April 25, 2005, 05:42:20 PM I think that you can visit around and see if you like another church. I think that it is really hard to find a church with standards that create a special unity. My church pick would be a small church because the first thing that i would look at would not be the music but the teaching and preaching.You wont find a lot of people going to these churches. I am a calvinist so that message is what i would look for. I know exactly what is acceptable to me and that would be a confessional church [Westminster Confession] . I would want to here the word preached and compare it to the confession. The human side is important that is do i get along with the people? Are they of one mind with me as a human being and doctrinally. The music should be more doctrinal than sentimental. Every sunday you would sing Hymns, have special music that is doctrinal sound, reading of scripture, prayer and preaching. I spent 2 yrs praying about and visiting churches before i committed. These people would be the mature in the faith kind of people so there would be a lot of unity. Most people want to be entertained and so if you liked that then you would be surrounded by those kind of people.

10129 Forums / Main Forum / Temptation Sometimes Wins on: April 23, 2005, 08:27:28 AM Maybe its not about your sin 13yrs ago maybe thats in your mind. There are a lot of people who did worse things than you did that are enjoying relationships. I dont know you but i think that it may be something that you are doing now that is contributing to your delima. Your standards may be too high or you may not put yourself in situations that are conducive to meeting that one. Yet God is in control and these things will work themselves out you can trust Him. I would consider the way i think at the present, because at some pt you must forget those things that are behind and press on toward the mark. 

10157 Forums / Theology Forum / "god Doesn't Care About Our Happiness" on: April 22, 2005, 10:31:32 AM There are two realities going on in side of me. On the one hand i am saved and rejoicing in my christian life. When i meditate on the word i have something to look forward to in heaven that on this earth i never attain. Yet when i look at my life i feel weak and my relationships in family etc. never really satisfy me. At times it is just depressing to tell you the truth. I have seen that when we exalt God and worship Him according to His design and through His word we are lifted up in our experience and at some point we come down to earths realities. This is like the apostle says we long to get rid of this earthly sin and the limitations that bring us down. [\"groaning\" ] Sometimes the battle gets so feirce that we dont know which way is up or down. God works these trials into our lives to change us on the inside and because He is sovereign He knows just what we need when we need it. So these ultimate questions about trust and His character are not good questions. Rather we need to do as the Psalmist and that is ask those things of Him that argue for His promises. This is for His glory, and our natural relational tendencies when things are troubling to us. Great confidence is found when we go with boldness to the throne of Grace and argue our case as the psalmist does. We are then untrouble by the burden we have just unloaded on to the Lord. Try to learn how to plead the promises. This is a life long adventure.

9769 Forums / Main Forum / Culture War/ Sacred Vs, Secular/ Etc... on: December 28, 2005, 03:39:04 PM We are not necessarily a democratic nation with a voting majority as the focus for change. We are a republic with the leaders covenanting that they will do according to the constitution with the oversight of the religious leaders. Really if you are thinking that party spirit will get that change you are looking for you are not understanding the way our nation was formed or the constitution and how we are set up. Actually only calvinist would understand our political system because it was from the original members of the church that were influenced the designers of our constitution. The real connection of political leaders and the people is when they put their hand on the bible , that should solve the imperilism problem but unless the spiritual leaders begin to speak out we are not going to have any accountablity to the covenant with the people. You know what happens to men who rule without moral direction. Anyway we covenant theologians understand the problem and we have a multiple problem. At least the arminist only have the world that hates them. We have the world that hates our message and the US religious community that cannot swallow our message. The history of our country has degenerated from calvinism to semi plagenism to pleagenism to hedonism. Thank God He is still in control. Just pray that we do not get what we deserve. 

9770 Forums / Theology Forum / "let God Love You" on: December 28, 2005, 08:13:17 AM Quote I posted this in the broadcast questions folder and thought I'd cross post it here and see what kind of help you guys could give me. I'd really appreciate your insights. I'm reading Scandalous Freedom and I really love it so far. I love Steve and listen whenever I can. In the book, and often in the tapes and radio programs, Steve says that the way we get better is to "let God love you". That really sounds great, and I certainly want to believe it. The problem I'm having is that it sounds an awful lot like Carl Rogers "unconditional positive regard" ala "Person Centered Psychotherapy". Rogers believed that our problems were caused by the judgement and manipulation of significant others in our formative years and that by exposure to someone who accepted us unconditionally (the therapist) we would get better. My questions are a) how do I "let" God love me? and what scriptural basis is there for this view? How is this not taking a concept from secular psychology that has become an unquestioned component of the western worldview and attributing it to scripture, much like people often do with the phrase "God helps those who help themselves"? I'm not being a smart alek, I really am trying to reconcile this with how much I love Steve and need his message. And I fully expect that I am missing a key point and just need to be pointed in the right direction. David Tolbert That is a great question. The thinking is that in scripture we have a natural leaning toward a pride that we are blinded to. We think even as christians that if we got something for free that would make us feel uneasy and we would seek to discount that thinking as a lazy way of facing our problems. In other words we want to do something to please someone because we feel guilty for having evil thoughts and actions and desires. We are also programmed by other people who have this problem in our families. The second thing is that we have a conscience that speaks louder than any other voice in us. We know that when the law and the conscience get together that we are going to be told that we are not doing what we are required to do. Our natural response is to do something to alleviate the conscience by a performance. We practice this so much that it becomes second nature to us. Now this is not just a thinking process but a power over our disposition. It is a mindset that holds us under its power. Why would the apostle spend so much time reminding us of our postion in Christ and the fact that we are not condemned if it wasnt a problem? 

9822 Forums / Main Forum / To Be (legalistic), Or Not To Be.. That Is The ? on: December 17, 2005, 04:01:35 PM Legalism is trying to attach the concept of faithfulness to my justification. It is also not reminding me that i have the righteousness of Christ for my final justification and for my confidence in my life of sanctification. If the person has no rest in the work of Christ in His message its probably legalism. Its also focussing on the practical and potraying the doctrinal as secondary. Its \"God will help you when you help yourself\" teaching. ReplyReply Reply with quoteQuote Notify of repliesNotify 9823 Forums / Prayer Requests / Now For Something Totally Different on: December 17, 2005, 03:51:54 PM Im praying for you. I hope every thing will be alright and you will begin to resume your life after this trial. Dont over do it, take rest. God will provide. 

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9839 Forums / Theology Forum / Sale On Righteous Clothing on: December 15, 2005, 04:38:08 AM Thanks Bill, With justification we have the substitutionary atonement and the imputed righteousness apart from human work both as a means to our justification and in our sanctification in each act of obedience and our acceptability to the Father. So in justification our faith is a resting faith in the finished work of Christ and our faith in sanctification is an active faith on the bases of His imputed righteousness to us.So unless we are resting in the finished work of Christ we are not going to be acting from a good motive. And unless we trust in that imputed righteousness we are going to think better of ourselves in our obedience than we should and thus take the glory due to Him on ourselves.He gets all the glory! 

9861 Forums / Main Forum / Fun Forum on: December 09, 2005, 07:25:13 AM Quote Quote There is nothing pleasant about my life and the only joy i have is when i focus strictly on Him. God makes us holy, not happy. Happiness is a choice we make. An attitude, perhaps. A way of looking at things. There is no joy apart from Truth, and the Word is a tangible reminder of Truth. A former pastor in Miami said it this way, "God is concerned with our character, not our comfort." At one point I didn't see anything good about my circumstances. Felt like the so-called Abundant Life was a cruel joke. But then I realized the problem was my definition of good and when I adjusted that, I saw that, while the circumstances in my life weren't pleasant, the circumstances aren't my life. Life is good, because He is my life and He is good. I'm not alone in the circumstances. There is a point that will be revealed one day. Someone once told me that before we come to the Lord, our lives are like paddle fans going in circles, spinning faster and faster out of control. When we become aware of the gospel, it's like reaching out for the pull chain, then holding on. As we do, the fan spins slower, gradually. By the time it comes to a complete stop, we're in heaven, beholding His glory face-to-face. Blessings. Peach Thanks Peach, You are very insightful and encouraging. I did not know you responded to me until now. I enjoy reading your post. Its hard when circumstances press in on a christian. There is a feeling that the world gets smaller and the temptations change from things to doubt and fear. Two things here, I see it as a fuel for pleading the promises and commanding the Lord to accomplish in me a greater understanding of His power by how my circumstances turn out. And then being able to cast my cares on Him in a more secure way than i have in my past experiences so that i can demonstrate that my confidence is not in myself but in Him. I feel like life is what i have seen in child birth. There are the times when we go through the 9 months and all the pain and all the insecurities and then when it comes time to deliver we experience extreme dire circumstances all that to hem us in and keep us from looking to ourselves for sustenance and our own ability to over come until we go through it and deliver the actual promise of deliverance that happens in that birth of light that increases our faith and our dependence on Him

9870 Forums / Main Forum / Double Predestination on: December 05, 2005, 09:09:37 PM When I speak of regard to be thus adjusted in the universal system, I mean the regard of the sum total; all intelligent existence, created and uncreated. For it is fit, that the regard of the Creator should be proportioned to the worthiness of objects, as well as the regard of creatures. Thus, we must conclude, that such an arbiter as I have supposed, would determine, that the whole universe, in all its actings, proceedings, revolutions, and entire series of events, should proceed with a view to God, as the supreme and last end; that every wheel, in all its rotations, should move with a constant invariable regard to him as the ultimate end of all; as perfectly and uniformly, as if the whole system were animated and directed by one common soul. Or, as if such an arbiter as I have before supposed, possessed of perfect wisdom and rectitude, became the common soul of the universe, and actuated and governed it in all its motions. J Edwards We describe original sin as from a passive decree of God. He did not tempt to sin but He was as Edwards describes here.

9880 Forums / Theology Forum / Encouragement For The Depressed- Spurgeon on: December 03, 2005, 12:27:53 PM There is a real delima that we are confronted with in our journey toward the celestial gates. It is when we have drifted from the refuge of the Lord and feel as though we have sinned enough to depart that we are tempted to feel as tho our praising Him is pointless. Yet it is always good to praise Him. It is always good to sing praises to Him. Circumstances should not determine our desires but rather our relationship to Jesus in these lean times are the determiner of our praizing Him. There is in creation of the universe a design for us to have examples of the attributes of God for us to visualize His revelation in that creation. On a cool night far from the illuminate light of the big cities we can look at the lights in the sky, and get a glimpse of the eternality and the understanding of who it is that is a Person of intricate details to the smallest degree in our lives. Even when we are falling we are being sustained by Him as He sustains the stars in their orbits. He upholds us with His power in our falling. Even tho we have been exiles in our circumstances where everyone has forgotten us and our friends have judged us gone forever, He is holding us from falling completely. He is bringing us to understand that nothing in this world is worth trusting in as the supreme object than Him. We praise Him in this delima because His grace is more powerful than our sin. So in our fallen state He is reversing the effects in us and healing us, and closing up the wound to be forgotten forever by Him in His Son. He is renewing us and gathering us along with the other humble ones to praise Him alone. Our God made a covenant with Abraham that He would make Him a father of many nations and that His children would be as the number of stars. We are Abrahams children by spiritual birth and have the same spiritual privileges promised in that covenant. We are one of those stars being upheld in that vast heavenly light show. Yet looking up beyond the stars we are confronted with a dark mysterious show of eternity, that is a bottomless view of space of eternal deminsions. There is the display of the might and the glory of God in His holding us up by His all seeing eye and His design of our lives by His infinite understanding. Yes just as He is sustaining those heavenly lights from His eternal abode in that dark mysterious space, He is bringing us to become a more bright star of eternal lumination of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Do you feel His presence. Dont let Satan convince you that you are beyond His care. Go to the night and think of His power to uphold the universal display of heavenly lights. Sing to Him in your darkest hour. It is fitting, normal , realistic to bless Him with our lips. To God be the glory!  

9925 Forums / Theology Forum / Mysticism And Christianity on: November 26, 2005, 07:13:40 AM Quote Since religion is not neccessarily spiritual let us consider that for men the mystery of his existence has been religiously explored by all manner of thought and inquirey. Truth is subject to the Creator of it and they who declare it are vindicated by what the unknown holds for them. Naturally, men regard what is not seen is imaginary: evil as a concept is invisible but we see it all the Time. Paul declared that what is invisible shall bring to nothing what is visable. Christianity is full of mysticism and surprises. And our faith which is invisible as a concept is visible in the conduct of our life and the nakedness we stand before God. To homogenize all spiritual doctrines is the corruption of the pure truth which extends only from the Creator. His doctrine is stated in the Ten Commandments and the given Law. The Son gave us the method to fulfill the requirements of The Law of God, with regard to salvation. We are subject to the mercy and forgiveness of God a truly light burden, As promised. snookyhook I agree that as long as you have a God that can do miracles and break into the natural order of things there will be the mystical. But our discussion is not about the mystical but about a pholosophy call mysticism. That is we are discussing what authority the word has in the whole of life. The bible defines those inner workings of the heart that are subjective but leaves alot of these workings to be mysteries. We can understand ourselves by Gods revelation as well as understanding who God is and what His will is. There is mystery in who God is ,also. We go to the revelation and we place our trust in its limits as to those truths we should know. So there are unseen workings that we can know that are mystical that are layed out in the scriptures. These are what we submit to.